[00:00:04] Speaker A: Hi, I'm Eric Whedon, a seasoned go to market software executive, team builder and a catalyst for revenue growth. My journey is fueled by a profound passion for ushering in a new era of dental healthcare through cutting edge AI technology.
[00:00:17] Speaker B: Hi, I'm Liz Strickwarda. Since 2008, I've been immersed in the world of dental marketing and business technology. At Truelark, I I focus on explaining how generative AI can help multi practice dental organizations scale while redefining the patient experience. Together, we welcome you to navigating DSO innovation, where we have unfiltered conversations with dental leaders and discuss how they are using tech to win in this booming market.
[00:00:50] Speaker C: Welcome to navigating DSO Innovation. Today we are joined by Eric Paston. Eric is an entrepreneurial leader with experience building, operating and growing successful businesses. While Eric has served in a variety of roles, he has extensive experience with the recruiting, retention and management of human capital. Currently, he is a director at Skytail Group, which is a full service strategic financial and m and a advisory firm that helps scale and sell group practice, dental, medical aesthetics and healthcare organizations. Prior to joining Skytail Group, Eric was the director of strategy and head of operations at Advanced Dental and from 2006 to 2020 he worked as managing director and director of recruiting at Doctor Dental, a DSO located in the northeast. Welcome Eric.
[00:01:39] Speaker D: Great, thank you for having me on. I'm excited for the conversation.
[00:01:45] Speaker A: Likewise, thanks. Good to have another Eric on the show. So hey, I wanna dive in. The part about your bio that really piqued my interest was the combination of culture and strategy in your background. And Peter Drucker said culture eats strategy for breakfast, not meaning that strategy is unimportant, but to drive towards that end goal. Culture is paramount on the human capital side.
Could you share more specific strategies or initiatives you've implemented when working with organizations to make sure that everybody within the organization feels valued and understands how their success is measured. So kind of the KPI's of culture. And then the second part of this question is then how do you balance individual contributions with overarching organizational goals?
[00:02:41] Speaker D: Sure. Yeah, that's a big question and I think a really important one to ask any business owner today as they think about growing and scaling. Right. And just to kind of take you back. And the piece of my bio that I will focus on here is back in my days with doctor dental, we started with one office.
We were just a dental office at that point without being a DSO, if you will. I don't even know if the term DSO had been coined yet. I'm that old, but we eventually grew it to 45 practices. And really over that time, what you realize is that people are what's the most important aspect of your business.
You go from one office where you can be successful as a micromanager, because you can control everything into this space where being a micromanager is a detriment to your organization. Enabling people is really the key to being successful and making people feel value throughout that enablement is what it comes down to. So then it becomes, how do you measure it in a meaningful way, so that you can make sure that that's happening within your organization from an ownership accountability standpoint and from an individual accountability standpoint. So you have to have that set symbiotic relationship of our owner responsibility to our employees, and vice versa, from a measurement standpoint. And I think that word culture comes out of that two way accountability. When you are hitting on both of those objectives, at the end of the day, that's where culture is developed. Culture is developed through trust and meaningful relationships. And then the KPI's are how you measure those coming out of it. Um, you know, I. I think every entrepreneur learns that lesson the hard way. You start with this office or individual space, that's your baby. And you really think you know exactly what's right in order to grow it. And you start to try to fit round pegs into square holes. And then you start to figure out quickly, hey, listen, I need to enable my people to love this place, business, whatever it might be, as much as you do. And when they feel empowered, that's when that success starts to happen. But you need to put on those accountability measurements. Like you said, throughout the specific KPI's that you measure. And I think within the dental space, we're lucky. Where I started and where we are today are two very different spots. Not only was the word DSO not a real thing back then, but a lot of the pmss were very rudimentary. It was difficult to extract data and we're in a space now where we almost have too much data. So it becomes how do we parse this data in a meaningful way so that we can pick and choose those KPI's that are appropriate for our organization.
Fast forward 100 years to today where I am now from when I started, and everyone has specific KPI's that they want to measure, that are meaningful to their organization. Cultures are different all over the place and we totally recognize that. So it becomes, what is your value proposition? You know, everyone has a uniqueness to their organization, so we like to focus on what is that to your organization? And then create almost a decision tree from there on how we're going to measure it and ultimately how we're going to communicate that accountability. Because if we're the only ones that understand what KPI's we're measuring and our staff does not, that's a lack of communication. That's a one way street. So it becomes, okay, we've figured out which are the KPI's. We want to concentrate on articulating it to the staff, if you will, whether that be through a management channel or directly, depending on how large your organization is, so that we can give our employees an opportunity to understand how they're being held accountable. And then the final piece is celebrating the successes that we have within the organization. So make sure that the people that you have around you appreciate the fact that you appreciate them for delivering on the success of these KPI's. And then when we do have that issue, we can sit down and have a conversation centered around results and data, rather than, hey, I feel this way, or this is what I think, you know, that's when you start to get into trouble, when it's not a fact, a fact backed conversation, it's more of a feeling. So, you know, we want to control those situations, make sure communication flowing in both directions and ultimately both be held accountable.
[00:07:40] Speaker C: So that's great.
[00:07:42] Speaker A: Yeah, go ahead, Liz.
[00:07:43] Speaker C: Oh, we do this all the time. We jump over each other. So setting clear goals and working backward from them is crucial for any organization's success. Can you, like, share a specific example where this approach has been particularly effective in driving growth or achieving key milestones within a multi practice, dental or any healthcare organization? Really?
[00:08:07] Speaker D: Yeah. I mean, I think the commonality that I see is sitting today. We're coming out of a time where there's been such an increased pressure to grow, and a lot of that growth has come from an m and a type of an approach, an acquisition approach. Right. So you're taking existing organizations that have a culture already and kind of mashing them together with your existing culture or non existent culture, whatever it might be, and then trying to figure out how we're going to move forward. So a lot of what we've worked through with our clients is how are we going to create that buffer between the two organizations? How are we going to develop integration and then, and make sure that those new staff members can appreciate the culture they have, but also understand what we're going to look at to measure their performance and try to blend the two together so it's not, hey, you know, let's chop this off and start from day one. It's let's blend them together. So I think from a successful perspective, it's about working with them to appreciate what are the valuable KPI's that they've had within their organization. How we can maintain a lot of those KPI's into how we're measuring, but then also how we can educate them on the why behind some of the KPI's that might be new and unfamiliar to them. So that it's not, hey, listen, this is our way or the highway. It's, hey, this is why we measure it this way. These are the results that we're trying to drive for. And ultimately this is the reward that will create the culture within the organization. And hopefully they will perceive that as an additional benefit through this new combination or the new opportunity.
And it really comes down to the articulation of the benefits to them and trying not to rock the boat too much.
[00:10:08] Speaker A: Yeah, communication. Such a big part of it. Right.
And so it sounds like you said you don't chop off, you know, the limb, so to speak. You go in and create a blend. But I imagine depending on the organization you drive for certain KPI's to be prioritized. Is that accurate? And is there kind of a core set of KPI's that you really feel are just, you know, core and central to any organization?
[00:10:35] Speaker D: Yeah, I mean, I think it's about understanding what truly drives the business forward. And I think from a Skytail perspective, where I sit today, we really blend the operational KPI's with the financial KPI's. And nine times out of ten, I find that a lot of the operational KPI's are pretty similar within organizations. You know, they're the big highlight ones. You know, revenue is a big one. Right? Production is a big one. You know, the amount of patients that actually showed up is a big one. So, you know, there are the big headliners that are out there that I think aren't too difficult to identify with an organization. But what a lot of the offices don't appreciate fully is a lot of the financial drivers. So we like to look at the entirety of the p and L and we find that a lot of offices are just looking at top line revenue, but we're looking at really profitability at the end of the day. So what drives profitability within an office, an organization, whatever you're targeting, either from this integration process or just to measure your business in general. And so that's where a lot of the education comes on our side. It's, do you understand the costs that sit within your p and L? And is there an appreciation for certain aspects of cost of goods, employee overhead? What does overtime really cost your office? Looking at the expense within the hygiene department, that's a hot one these days because they're impossible to find and really demanding more and more.
From a comp perspective, a lot of those are the new KPI's that we try to work through with some of our clients of really understanding. Hey, got it. You know, revenue is great, but at the end of the day it's about really profitability.
[00:12:29] Speaker C: So how do you attract hygienists? Because, you know, the DSS that Eric and I talked to, it's. It has been a challenge for years and there's no relief on the horizon.
[00:12:43] Speaker D: Yeah, I mean, to me it's about enabling them, really making them understand what the drivers are to hygiene success. And, you know, I sit here on the business side, you know, I don't pretend nor do I have the right to interfere from a delivery of services to our patients. Right. I'm not going to tell them what to do from a procedure standpoint, but what I will say is an increased focus on what truly drives the hygiene department. So there's an expense to that hygiene team no matter what. And depending where you are, you know, you're paying your hygienist, I don't know, high forties to mid sixties.
You know, that that is a complete shift in comp structure. So it's about how do you drive productivity into that line? And we look at a couple of different ways. Is it, you know, looking at the procedure mix? So perio has become, you know, a really increased focus. So how can we increase their ability to have these conversations with patients? How can we educate and offer ways so that the hygiene team doesn't feel like they're out, you know, on an island? Just saying you need to be more productive. That's not, you know, that's not that two way street we're talking about. It's about having meaningful conversations, creating educational channels to make the teams feel more empowered and have drive towards good conversations and understanding from a patient perspective. I think that's a big piece of what's going to allow us and then, you know, and then creating some sort of increased comp structures that says, hey, listen, you know, yes, this is how much you make on an hourly basis, but you can also access more if you do more. You know, we want to reward our team, play our team that's being more and more productive as time goes on. When you are having those conversations, when you are, you know, choosing to concentrate on those areas that are going to be productive, but also those areas that your patients need, you know, then. Then we want you to be able to feel rewarded, whether that's through a bonus or a comp structure that rewards on that ratio that people talk about kind of three to one that you like to see within the hygiene department. So, you know, getting complex in the way that you approach it. Understanding, you know, the expense line again, and not just concentrating on revenue, I think will allow you to focus on what's truly going to be meaningful to drive profitability for the business, and that's also good for your employees.
[00:15:29] Speaker C: So, you know, Eric and I, we kind of focus on helping DSO scale on the technology and, you know, patient management and administrative. But as you're talking about HR and, you know, attracting good employees and retaining them, I'm curious, in your experience, do you see the hiring component, the people component, a greater obstacle to scaling than, say, technology and centralizing and standardizing operations?
[00:16:06] Speaker D: So, to me, it's creating an environment where people can be successful. It's about decreasing the friction between non consequential work lines and enabling your staff to be able to concentrate on what truly is consequential, which is your relationship with your patients. And that's why I look at them as really equally important. I don't think there's a hierarchy in between, you know, these retention tools, technology, or any other spaces. You need everything working in concert together. You know, it's. You know, I used to say it's like an orchestra, right? Like, if you have. If you don't have a tuba in there, it's going to sound weird. And so I think that's the point, is that, is that you need all of it to be working together and supporting each other in order to be successful. And so, you know, and I've had this conversation, I think, with Mike from Truelark at a couple of the industry events. And I just recorded with Skytale, we just recorded a podcast about technology. And a lot of it is about that. It's about reducing friction and taking and eliminating that barrier that's created by these.
By these systems that don't allow for us to be able to focus on our patients. So if you can find a technology that allows you to eliminate a human being or a system from interrupting the patient experience, that's something that I think offers an incredible opportunity and an ROI that's immediate for your organization?
I used to like, as we grew from one office to 445, it was always a concentration of what can we remove from the day to day activities of our people that are going to allow this office to focus and concentrate on what's truly consequential. And, you know, if I, you know, to the point where I wanted to rip every phone out of the wall, I wanted to remove as many computers as I could. Like, it was really about like, how do we create this environment that a patient walks in and just feels like there's a human touch at every step of the way? To me, integrating technology is not removing the humanity from the equation. It's about augmenting the humanity in the equation. And so I think that was probably a long winded answer to your question, but I think it's a flat line, not a pyramid of hierarchy as it comes to how to prioritize.
[00:18:52] Speaker A: I think that's great. I strongly agree.
Yeah, and I think that's a really good point for our listeners. You know, so many times, organizations, organizations that I've been in, when we sit down and we take a look at the landscape, we think about what can we add? You know, we're always thinking about, you know, maybe adding first. And oftentimes, as you point out, it's what you remove that has, you know, that exponential impact. So I think that's a really strong point that you make.
So before we wrap up, Eric, I just have maybe kind of a question looking at the future.
Skytel works in strategic partnerships in the transaction process. M and a, what do you see in the DSO space in maybe the next 1224 months? M and a de novo. Do you see any area really picking up what's kind of your, I guess, crystal ball in terms of, yeah, it's.
[00:19:51] Speaker D: Funny, my business was all de novo. We acquired our first office, and it was de Novo from there. And that's why I love culture, because it's an opportunity to really install your culture in the organization from day one and not have to deal with some of those pitfalls that exist through integration. And I think if you go back to recent history, you see integration being the number one barrier to future success, I think. But that being said, consolidation is real in our space. There continues to be private equity participation in the changing landscape of the dental industry.
I think that's something that will continue to happen. I like the fact that they're being more strategic in the way that they're growing. I think that the patience ultimately is who's going to win out with the slowing of consolidation in the DSO space because there will be a strategic perspective that's going to allow for better growth. I think within the space, it's not going to be growing for growing sake anymore. It's going to be growing with intent. And so that coupled with all of the technology that's pouring into the space, ultimately should deliver a better product for the patients that are walking in through the door. So again, consolidation will continue.
I love the de novo perspective. It's still a quote unquote hot industry.
We fortunately get to work in a couple of different spaces and you see at any given time one space kind of really accelerating while one is slowing down and you see similar fundamentals within each one. You know, some of them are just because they're in different developmental stage within that consolidation. But I think at the end of the day, it's all similar in the respect to, you know, there are good organizations out there, there are some great dsos doing good things and growing, and I think that will continue to fuel their expansion. And there are some other ones that hopefully will bow out and stop participating in it because they didn't do it the right way.
And so I think from a seller perspective, it's really important to understand who your partner is going to be and make sure that this can be a long lasting relationship. And that's really what we're here for, is to vet those buyers, really make sure that our sellers understand, you know, what the offer really is, what the expectations are, and the future potential through of the organization. So we're excited for the future. We're still very bullish on dental and, you know, it's a fun place to be.
[00:22:55] Speaker A: That's great growth with intent. I like that. That's something I'm gonna, I don't know, write down and keep in front of me.
Very good. Hey, thanks a lot, Eric. It's been a pleasure having you on the show. Before we depart, is there any last, I guess, things you'd like our listeners to know? Where can they find you? Where can they find Skytale group?
[00:23:16] Speaker D: Yeah, Skytail Group is based out of Dallas, Texas. I live in Boston. A lot of our consultants are remote, but skytailgroup.com dot I'm eric
[email protected]. dot feel free to look us up online or shoot me over an email. Happy to have a conversation. I love talking dental and dentistry amongst others, including the aesthetic and Medspa space and some of the others that we're in. So if anyone wants to talk, I'm here.
[00:23:48] Speaker A: That's great. And we would love to have you back on the show.
[00:23:52] Speaker D: Perfect.
[00:23:53] Speaker C: Thanks, Eric.
[00:23:54] Speaker A: All right.
[00:23:55] Speaker D: Thank you. I appreciate it.
